Your Stream can Sound as Good as your Favorite Concert

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Mike Dias:

Hello everybody, and thank you again for joining me. Welcome to another episode of, From The Stage to the Screen. This is the show where we take the best practices from your favorite concerts, the best records, the greatest hits, and we bring those to you, the streamer, so that you can tell more impactful stories. I'm your host, Mike Dias, and today we're joined by Marcus dePaula. Marcus has toured the world many times over with Claire, and he has a major in voice. He was at the podcast beginnings and we're going to get right into this. Marcus, you're the perfect person to talk about stage presence. I want to start there. What is it? What does it mean? How do we hook people with our voice and our being? And let's take it from there.

Marcus dePaula:

Thanks, Mike. And thanks everybody for having me on the show. Yes, stage presence is something that's often overlooked, especially when we're talking into a computer screen or a camera. We think about it obviously from performers usually on stage, but I do think it's even more vital to focus on that a lot of times than the actual equipment that you're using, which obviously I've got a pretty good spread of equipment. But stage presence is that energy and that ability that someone has to draw someone in to what they're doing. And a lot of live streamers and podcasters that I see, they don't necessarily think of what they're doing as a performance. They just think, well, I'm just going to turn on my camera, turn on my microphone and start talking.

And we do need to think of what we're doing as a performance to keep people engaged, especially if it's something that we're going to try to make money off of. But keeping the energy up, keeping the listener, the viewer, engaged in every way possible. Not just from the words you're saying, the story you're telling, but also in your energy and your vocal production and how you speak. Learning how to use your instrument of your voice and learning how to use your body language. And all of these things come together to keep that energy up and keep people as engaged as possible.

Mike Dias:

Marcus, how do I do that? I'm a shy guy by nature. I can hold my own, but then the minute I get on camera, everything falls apart. How do I train myself? How do I get in that mental?

Marcus dePaula:

I like watching other performers that are really, really skilled at what they do. That's how I learned how to do engineering, it's how I've learned woodworking now. I've made my own desk here. Watching other videos, going to other events, seeing people that are masters at their craft, doing what they do. I observe and I don't want to necessarily exactly copy what they're doing, but I want to adapt the things that I enjoy and that I can pull off for myself, because we all have our own thing that we can bring to it. So, observing from others that are really good at what they do, asking for feedback. That's another thing, is asking peers and other people that you trust their opinion. Hey, was this crazy, did I do an okay job, is there anything I can do better next time? And that applies to technical things and performance, human connection things as well.

So, all of that. And then watching your own recordings, listening to yourself, listening to your own podcast. Whenever I have a client, because I produce a lot of podcasts now, that says they never listen to their shows, that just absolutely deflates me because not only are they not hearing the fruits of my labor, but that means they're not listening to try to see how they can improve on their craft. And when you're speaking into your microphone, and especially when you're speaking into your camera, a big part of that craft is communication. And there are all these little nuanced things that you can learn that I'm constantly learning myself as I edit and now as I'm on camera, on mic, on how I can become a better and better communicator to help engage with more people and to help grow my audience. It all factors in together and it's an ongoing process. It's a never ending journey trying to become a master at what I do on every level.

Mike Dias:

Thank you. So, I want to stay on this because you have such a unique vantage point after being around the world and after being with the world's top performers. Now, you and I are both in the business, so we know that, that is not accidental. We know the intentionality there, we know the rehearsal. What goes into taking a performance from great to unparalleled? What is that extra mile that they're mastering?

Marcus dePaula:

Yes. And this is a mistake that I see a lot of novices, especially in the podcasting world, they think they can spend $50 on a microphone, just turn it on, record it, publish it, and then all of a sudden start raking in the money as a podcaster or a YouTuber or whatever. And the people that we see that are huge successes at what they do, they didn't just start, their success may have come up overnight, but they have been doing what they do for a long time. And especially when it comes to things that involve technical aspects, with the stage presence with understanding how to better engage with your audience, but also just becoming good at using a microphone. Microphone technique, learning how to set gain, learning how to use compression EQ, all of that stuff. It takes time to develop. And when I was touring back in the early 2000s, most people don't realize that before that first show of the tour, we don't just show up and put on the show.

We've been working for weeks, if not months, getting everything together, getting all of the aspects of the sound system, of the lights, of the staging, of the pyrotechnics, of the video, all of it, all of these elements. And an army of people working full 10 to 12 hour days, 16 hour days sometimes. Even before rehearsals. Obviously people think about, there has to be some rehearsal involved. But even before the rehearsals, we would spend usually a week before rehearsals even started, we'd set up the entire sound system. We would go through every single input on every single console. And this was back in the analog days, we didn't have digital, so we had to check a lot of patch cables and all that sort of thing. It wasn't just an ethernet cable that we were plugging in. Back then we had these big multichannel snakes that were thousands and thousands of dollars, lots of copper.

So, we had to check every single thing and make sure every single thing worked. We would test all the microphones, we would test all the outboard gear because our analog compressors were in racks. They weren't just plugins. And we would make sure that every single element was ready to go, so that when it came time for us to start rehearsing, we could get down to business and focus on developing the actual performance and helping the artists do what they do and not be distracted by the technical problems that arise. So, that's the first thing is being prepared on a technical level. But then also understanding when things do go wrong, because they will, having a plan B and having a spare microphone, a spare cable, knowing what to do to adjust. And in my world now with streaming and podcast recording, it's understanding how to continue with the stream. Even when there are technical glitches, the show must go on.

So, all of this takes practice. It's not something that you can just turn a mic on and go. And so, understanding that we're all at different places, and it's great to just start where you are and start doing it. The more you do it, the better you'll get at it. You can practice also not when you're streaming live and you can record things practicing and you don't have to release those things. That's often a thing, people think, well, I've recorded this thing, I've invested this time in creating this thing I have to put it out there so that I can make money off of it or capitalize on this thing. Well, the effort that you put into learning the process, that in and of itself has value. You don't always have to release every single thing that you put out there. So, lots of preparation, lots of practice. And like I said before, it's an ongoing process, constantly developing your skills, learning new things, especially as technology continues to adapt.

Mike Dias:

Oh, Marcus, you just touched on two of my favorite things. So, as a professional, as somebody who has lived this, seen this, to you, what is the difference between practicing and rehearsing?

Marcus dePaula:

Practicing for me is more unstructured. So, it's me just getting in and fiddling with things. So, like today, I was tweaking my stream deck. So, I've added some buttons so that I can easily switch between two cameras. I've got a stream deck here, I've got an ATEM Mini Pro over here. So, practicing is me just trying out new things and experimenting to see what I can incorporate into my setup. Rehearsing to me is when you have a program, when you have a show, when you have a structured performance that you want to...

So, that's when I have my ideas written out and I want to rehearse. So, getting ready for this actual live stream, going through and making sure everything is working, doing the little sound check that I do so that there's no surprises when it's time to go, and you guys aren't waiting on me to figure out what I'm doing. So, rehearsal to me is more keeping in mind what the actual end product is going to be and systematically going through the steps of making sure that all those pieces are in place. Whereas practicing to me is the more unstructured free form experimentation.

Mike Dias:

And you've had such vantage from side stage. Again, for anybody who doesn't understand the difference between monitors in front of house, Marcus ran monitors for many of the world's top musicians, which means he's on the stage and he's controlling the sound for the musicians of what they hear. Which also means that he's the person they come to and yell at, sometimes thank. But there's a psychology there, there's an intimacy there. And you are the one to answer this. Where does that hunger come from? Where does that push come from? Where does that, nope, I'm going to do another take, nope, I want to nail this, what is that essence? Because I know you've seen performers who have it, and I know you've seen performers who don't.

Marcus dePaula:

Right. Unfortunately, for a lot of people in the spotlight, myself included, there can be this self-centered element and this thing of wanting... As human beings, we want to make connections with other people, but then that can go a step too far and become a thing of demanding people's attention and trying to make yourself feel better than other people and stuff like that. And that's the dangerous part. That's the diva mentality that fortunately I didn't have to deal with a whole lot in my touring days. I got to work with a lot of great artists. That was not a factor. But in a healthier mindset, and all of this is about mindset, no matter what you're doing, if you're singing to a stadium full of people or if you're just by yourself in a room like I am right now talking into a camera, and in theory I'm talking to more than just you right now, Mike, but essentially I'm by myself.

It's being mindful of how our performance, no matter what setting we're in, is going to be able to connect with those other people. And so, everything that I'm doing and the excellence that I'm seeking and the money I'm spending on all this gear, it's fun. Yes, absolutely. There's a self-centered element to it for me. But it is of utmost importance to me, making the best use of what I have, of my talents, of my equipment, of the thoughts that I've been given, the stories that I have to tell, the experience that I've been given, to actually connect with other people and provide something for them that's either helpful, it's either informational, inspirational or entertaining. Those are the three things that I want all of my content and all of my clients' content to do. At least one of those things, but hopefully all three when everything is working and all the cylinders are firing together and everything is aligned.

Mike Dias:

I love it. I love it, I love it. And let's use this as a segue and just talk about why people are doing it. And you just hinted at this, and I want to talk about human connection, what it means, how does it go both ways when we are just sitting in our rooms talking into the ether? What do you see, from packed arenas to this, what's the connection?

Marcus dePaula:

Right. The thing that's missing with the stream and that some streamers get to do that do have large audiences and the popular Twitch streamers and those type of people that can see the chat comments and people interacting. There's an energy that you get from the audience, and as a streamer, as somebody talking to a camera, you're missing that energy of being in the room, especially with a large group of people. And in the touring space, that is the magic part. It's what makes it different than just hearing the song in your headphones or in your car. That's why you go to a concert is to experience that energy and the connection with the other people enjoying the music.

The artist is doing it from the stage and feeding off that energy from the crowd, and it becomes this magical mixture of human interaction. And so, it is hard to emulate that in-person feeling on what we're doing right now. But because I've experienced that and all of us hopefully have been to some kind of event where we can remember back, it helps me to think back on those times that I've been in those situations and try my best to bring that same energy and that same mindfulness of trying to connect in that way to get a reaction, even though I'm not going to be able to experience it firsthand, hopefully I'll be able to see and get feedback in written form, in the comments, via email, via social media, all that sort of thing. And everything that I'm doing helps serve that goal.

Everything from the plugins that I'm using with compression and EQ, to the microphones I'm choosing, to use to this camera, because I do all my Zoom calls with this setup. It's way overkill, yes. But I want every interaction I have, one-on-one or when I'm broadcasting. And that's the other thing is there's a danger with the internet of thinking of it as a broadcast, that it's a one direction interaction that I am just spewing my stories and my stuff out for people to just catch in whatever way they can. But the real way to think of it is more as human interactions, this back and forth, this exchange that happens. Even though we don't get to do it necessarily in real time all the time through the internet like we do in the concert world and event space, there is an opportunity for that through the follow-up with social media that extends beyond what concerts don't have.

And that's the thing, that concert experience is fixed. If you weren't in the room, you missed it, you can maybe watch somebody posting a video about it, but it's not the same as being in the room. But that's one of the benefits, our stuff now, what we're doing here is going to live on beyond this time right now that we're recording it together and we'll be able to have future interactions based on what people see moving forward that concerts don't necessarily get to experience. So, that's a positive trade-off for what we're doing here.

Mike Dias:

So, this is much more akin to a production than a broadcast. And so, riff on that for a minute because it's a really interesting way to think about it. And I think only someone with your experience can get to that point. And the point of this show is to bring individual creators that don't have giant teams, that don't have this, to this place of storytelling. So, how can we intentionally think of this as production?

Marcus dePaula:

Again, just going back to being mindful of the end goal. Which is, as we build our audiences, and this is another mistake that I see, it's really easy for us to just be obsessed with those stats, with the analytics and the follow numbers, the view numbers, the download numbers, the listening numbers. And in my mind it's like I'm turning these human beings that are investing their time in what I have to say into a number. And that is not a good way to make connections with other human beings. So, in everything that I'm doing, I'm constantly thinking of how is this going to help me connect with more people and on a deeper level? And so, the production elements as far as the quality of the microphone, the quality of the effects that I'm using, the quality of the camera that I'm using, and the lens and the tools that I have to make my job more enjoyable, all of this is facilitating my ability to make a more meaningful connection and a unique connection with those viewers. Because I'm trying to elevate my content above all the other noise that's out there.

I'm competing with people on TikTok that are just using their phone and a She-Hulk filter to get millions of views, and that's a different type of content, more power to them. But I have to be mindful of that. How am I going to differentiate myself? And you don't have to spend thousands of dollars like I have on equipment, but there are all of these factors. We have to find what it is that we excel at and what we're going to be able to set apart ourselves, not just what we're doing, what we're saying, not just getting slapped upside the face with a tortilla or anything like that. We have to make opportunities in every way possible with what we're saying, how we're saying it, and then how we're publishing and how we're producing it, and packaging it for people to experience online on every level.

Mike Dias:

It's working Marcus. I'm going back and forth between closing my eyes because I feel like I'm right there with you, but then wanting to open them to stare, to be involved in your setup. And I've been a good patient boy, but I need a tour. You start where you want to start, but walk all of us through bit by bit and how you put these pieces together to the sum being much greater than each.

Marcus dePaula:

Absolutely. And it all starts with the human voice. And that's the thing, people tend to obsess with the microphone, but to me it starts with the voice. And I was, like you said, I was a singer in college, so I am very mindful of how I'm using my God-given instrument to say things in a way that is most worth people's time. As I hesitate there to not say um and use filler words. But trying not just to sound eloquent for my own ego's sake, but also to try to say things that are not circuitous, not wasting people's time. So, that's it. And then also my diction, all that sort of thing. Then to get into the tech stuff.

This microphone right here, the Earthworks ETHOS, which is my absolute favorite mic now, it has replaced my longtime beloved SM7B, which is still a fantastic mic. But the better the microphone, the better your end product is going to be. The better you can capture it up front, the better the lens, the better the camera, the better the lighting, the better your acoustics in your room, the less work you're going to have to do in post-production. So, the more you can invest in quality tools that are reliable and aren't going to break on you, the better. Then I have this custom hacked boom arm that I made out of a vasa mount because I'm a little handy. I've drilled off the vasa thing and I have, let's see, I don't know if I can...

Mike Dias:

Oh, okay.

Marcus dePaula:

Yeah. So, it's like the O.C. White arm, but I paid $50 instead of $300 for it. And it can go up and down. And then I make my own cables with Mogami wire. I use these switch craft right angle connectors that are normally used for field recorders. And I'm going into, speaking of field recorders, the sound device is MixPre-6 II, which to me is absolutely the best sounding audio interface device that I have ever used and it has onboard recording. So, when I'm recording with everybody in the same room for a podcast, I don't need a computer, I can just bring my microphones and my boom arms and the recorder and hit record. I set it up for clients.

So, all they have to do is walk into a room, put the mic in front of their face and hit record. And then that is connected to obviously my Mac here and I've got the laptop with the display. But I've also got this Softube Console 1 because I am a dinosaur and came up in the analog days. I love to turn knobs, I love to push faders, and this really helps make my job more fun, but also helps me speed things up when I'm tweaking things in the mix. I rely heavily on iZotope RX for cleaning up my sound before I drop the files into my DAW. Sorry, Mike, go ahead.

Mike Dias:

No, I was wondering how and when that's in your signal chain. Okay.

Marcus dePaula:

Yeah. So, my process is, I'll record the files as wave files onto my MixPre recorder and it's 32-bit float, so I don't have to worry about gain. I don't want to get too technical and start boring people, but you can always turn it down and it's not going to be distorted in post if it happens to be too loud. So, I bring that into RX and then I'll adjust and optimize everything. I'll run the noise filters, I'll run mouth de-click, I'll optimize the gain, and if there's any peaks that are going off the screen, I'll turn them down. Then I'll export a copy of that into my DAW, which I'm using logic right now, but I can flip-flop between Pro Tools and Adobe Audition, all the typical DAWs. And in my DAW is where I will run my effects plugins with the Console 1 that has compression EQ, that emulates all the classic analog stuff like API and Neve and Chandler, the channel strip I use is actually by Chandler.

There's Weiss DS, which is a mastering thing. There's all this stuff I could go into for days. And I also have an Apollo x4, but I just use it for my monitoring usually, because I like the preamps better in the MixPre. And then I do my editing and mixing in Logic with all my plugins and then export the wave files and make sure the loudness is all good to go. And then upload the files, or I'll drop them in and line them up with the video. So, I do my pre-processing, same process even when I'm doing video, and I'll just replace the audio that's recorded on the camera with the optimized mixed audio with all my fancy plugins.

Mike Dias:

Got it. And this is perfect for recorded music. I want to ask a few more questions, but before I get there, for live, whether it's a Zoom call like this or a live stream, what do you bypass or how are you running right now?

Marcus dePaula:

Yeah. Right now basically all you're hearing is the MixPre. And there's a limiter on it that I'm seeing I'm hitting every once in a while when I get excited. But I'm not using any of my effects. I could, and I do for some of my demos when I'm doing training sessions and when I'm doing some of my presentations where I'm demonstrating compression EQ, I can run this through Logic and then I have through the Apollo and the Console software that comes with the Apollo, I can do different routing and have my DAW go through it so that I can then have you hear my plugins through the DAW and I can even do different mics, even USB mics and stuff like that, that I've done before, which one of my videos that's on my channel where I compare eight different mics. I do the same kind of thing that I do in that video.

Mike Dias:

Got it. You can do all that live?

Marcus dePaula:

Yes.

Mike Dias:

Okay. But clean and dirty and plugged right into the Zoom via your laptop?

Marcus dePaula:

Yes. If I was thinking I would've had it set up so I could show you in real time, but maybe we can do another one.

Mike Dias:

No, no, no, we can hear it. Okay. So, for monitoring, let's talk about your speakers and then let's play with the video switchers.

Marcus dePaula:

Yes. Okay. So, right now I have these Kali Audio speakers, which to me, they're the LP sixes I think, the six-inch woofers, two-way. For the money, I don't think you can beat them. They're absolutely fantastic. These are the first gen, the second gen are even quieter. My only thing with these is there's a little hiss, you can hear a little amp hiss, which happens a lot with certain amps. And they're sitting on these IsoAcoustics mounts to help with the low end so I don't feel the vibrations and tightens up the low a little bit.

Mike Dias:

For all the listeners who don't know about Kali and about what's happening right now, especially with Atmos and filling these in for all the certs, do you want to share any history of how the company started, who they are, the founder?

Marcus dePaula:

I actually don't know. So, you tell me.

Mike Dias:

He's the guy from JBL.

Marcus dePaula:

Oh, okay.

Mike Dias:

So, all your classic horn designs. And I'm feeling so silly right now that his name is escaping me at the tip of my tongue. But there is a reason that they've exploded onto the scene. There is a reason that they've mastered price, manufacturing, logistics. There is some huge expertise into what you're hearing and saying.

Marcus dePaula:

And for the money, like I said, you just cannot beat it. I don't need a sub. I used to have a sub with my old KRKs and I don't need it anymore because the low end is plenty. And of course, I'm doing podcasts, so I'm not like doing kick drum or bass or anything like that. I do actually a lot of my editing on these guys right here, my Ultimate Ears UE 18+, that I've been using Ultimate Ears since 1999 is when I first started using Ultimate Ears. I've been a loyal Ultimate Ears fan and user. But these guys have, what are they, six or eight drivers in each?

Mike Dias:

Yeah.

Marcus dePaula:

Yeah.

Mike Dias:

I think there's six in the 18s. I've got a set of Lives in right now.

Marcus dePaula:

Nice.

Mike Dias:

And so, talk about these for a second, because nobody talks about in ears when it comes to streaming, podcasting. And yes, selfishly I'd like to see those worlds overlap, but there's a huge benefit.

Marcus dePaula:

Absolutely. So, these are the things that you see people on stage wearing, and you don't see a lot of YouTubers or streamers wearing them because they are a bit cost prohibitive for what we're doing. But I used to share an office with my wife and I didn't want her to have to hear, and she didn't want to have to hear all of the editing and me listening to the same person saying the same thing over and over again. So, I got these custom molded ones so that I can wear these for extended periods of time with no fatigue because my Sony MDR-7506 over there, tried and true, they squeezed my head and they hurt my head on top. They hurt my ears. These things I can wear for hours. I used to wear them on planes. I wore them on the entire flight from New York to London for nine hours straight. And it doesn't hurt anything because they're custom molded.

But on top of that, the accuracy with these armatures and the technology in them, I can hear things for editing purposes. And when I'm cleaning up the audio, like removing background noise, removing reverb, I could remove the reverberance that you can hear on Mike's microphone right now because he is in an untreated space. And I can hear that better when I'm using these as opposed to listening through my speakers. But I still do the ultimate mix on the speakers because that's how a lot of people are going to listen to it. But I do the editing on these more precise in my head drivers.

Mike Dias:

So, let's talk about my reverberance in my untreated space for a second. So that people can hear the difference between how I sound and how you sound.

Marcus dePaula:

Yes.

Mike Dias:

And again, I'm not in the podcast studio. We had a conflict today, and so I'm here in my office. It's not bad, but it's not great. What do you hear and what do you want listeners to cue in on so that they can hear how it can get better?

Marcus dePaula:

Right. So, first of all, even though I hear reverberance, a lot of people may not be because you're actually close to the mic. And that's a key thing. I see too many podcasters that are way, especially if they have a mic that sits on their desk, it's just too far away. The closer you get, the better You can see I've got mine and there was an interaction I had on Twitter today. Should the microphone be on-screen when you're doing video? Yes, absolutely. You want the best sound possible. So, you're already improving on your audio quality regardless of what space you're in, when you're close like me and like Mike are. But I am hearing a little bit of reverberance. And the reverberance is basically his voice bouncing off of the walls that are just bare. That wall behind you is completely bare. I don't know what's in front of you, but essentially the voice bounces off and ricochets back at a different time.

And so, that time separation is what creates the reverberance, and then it bounces off the other wall. So, it just keeps going around. And you can see I've got these acoustic panels that I've actually built myself out of fabric and Rockwool. But you can buy acoustic panels from Auralex. I've got a big fat curtain over there on the window that helps cut down. I have a carpet. So, if you're in a hardwood space, putting a rug down helps. I actually have ceiling panels up. I don't think you can see them up there, but I've got two ceiling panels that I mounted on the ceiling above me as well. So, all of these things cut down on my voice bouncing around beyond the microphone. So, anything you can do. And I've seen people do packing blankets.

Now, I want to dispel a myth that I hear a lot as well. I hear a lot of people, especially that are voice actors, and no shame to voice actors, but I hear a lot of people that say that you need to spend more money on room treatments than you do your microphone. And while that can be true, what they're referring to is people investing in a Neumann studio microphone, TLM 103 or a Neumann U 87. It's like 3,600 bucks and they're in an untreated space. That thing is going to pick up every single thing in the room. And so, in that case, you do want to invest just as much in your room treatment as your microphone. However, because of technology, and like this guy right here, this microphone has a, is it a supercardioid pattern?

Mike Dias:

It's hyper.

Marcus dePaula:

It is hypercardioid. So, it has a tighter pickup pattern. So, even though it's just as accurate, it's a condenser microphone, the condenser microphones are a lot more accurate than the Shure SM7B and they get the crispness and articulation in our voices and all that stuff. It's not picking up my dog outside the room or the lawnmower outside the window and all that stuff, which is fantastic. So, that's the other piece, it's about balance. And all this to say, you don't have to spend more money on room treatment than your microphone if you have the right microphone. So, that's where understanding not just the equipment that you're investing in, but also how it's all working, how close you need to be. All of these elements come into play and that's what makes audio harder than you think it would need to be. We've gotten so used with our iPhones just turn and hit and record and thinking, well, why is audio not that easy? And it's because there's all of these factors that come into play that we don't have to worry about with video that add up and make a difference.

Mike Dias:

Yeah. And by the way, Marcus, I'm in an old New England mill. The room is about 18 by 18, 20 foot high, wood floors, wood ceilings. So, it normally would sound much worse than it does. Of course, I'm cheating being right up next to the ICON, but this is USB plugged right into the laptop.

Marcus dePaula:

Right. Another great Earthworks product.

Mike Dias:

Yeah, it helps. But okay, so I looked up, it's Charles Sprinkle. Charles, sorry that I dropped the ball on that.

Marcus dePaula:

Cool.

Mike Dias:

Charles is the head of acoustics that jumped from JBL to start Kali.

Marcus dePaula:

Cool.

Mike Dias:

Okay. So, back on the tour because I can't wait to watch these video bits.

Marcus dePaula:

Yes. All right. So, when it comes to video I'm using in my teleprompter here, let me switch to my other camera, in this guy I have, it's a Glide Gear teleprompter and I've got the Fujifilm X-S10 with a 12 millimeter Rokinon lens. Since I'm static, I don't have to have autofocus on. And then the camera that you're seeing right now is my Fujifilm X-T4 with a cheap little 7Artisans, 25 millimeter lens on it. Because I would love to get a $1,000 lens for it, but I have all this other stuff that I've spent money on. So, the priorities. And then that is going into my, let me go back to this camera, to my ATEM Mini Pro over here. And I built this table, actually it's portable. It has wheels on one end and the legs come off and I can shut this and take the camera off and take it with me. And I can do live streams from any of my client locations. I can do, with the ATEM, I can add a little bubble here.

Mike Dias:

Come on.

Marcus dePaula:

Yeah. So, I can move it down like this. And I've got my stream deck here where I've programmed these buttons. That's actually what I was practicing today is getting all this stuff. And then in addition to that, when I do my training stuff, I can do demo stuff. Let me move this over to this screen here. And now my stream deck changed screens here because I've got it set for different apps. But I go into demo mode here and then I can show you what I'm doing in my software on the screen and how I'm using the voice de-noise and it showed up on my other screen here, got too many screens. And all that sort of thing. And then I can also run graphics, which right now I'm just running it off of my iPhone from a Keynote file. So, I can do, and that didn't show up on the screen, but let me go back.

Mike Dias:

No, it's there. Do that again.

Marcus dePaula:

Yeah. There we go.

Mike Dias:

Get out of here.

Marcus dePaula:

So, that's just a Keynote file that I've got my iPhone plugged into as another input. And then I'm using the downstream key on the ATEM where the black background gets subtracted and I can overlay on top of my video into... So instead of doing screen share slide presentations, when I do presentations for Podfest and Podcast Movement and all the events like that, that are virtual, especially during the pandemic, I was having the text for my presentations and my images and stuff right on the screen with me.

Mike Dias:

Okay, so timeout. I need this. I am playing at such a low level game and as I wrap up my new home office, because we all understand that this is not going away, this is the future that we're looking at. Sooner or later everyone will catch up to what you're doing here. All in, what is a price tag and then just let's overlay, get some graphics and overlay some price pops for me.

Marcus dePaula:

Yeah. I didn't have those prepared. I should have. Actually, I just finished outfitting Bryan Barletta, my friend at Sounds Profitable, and I got him to get an ATEM Extreme ISO, which is the big daddy that has eight inputs instead of just four. And I got it so that he can do two keys, which the keys would allow me to do those bubbles that move. And you can see in his, what does he call them, deep dive videos that he does with his clients that it's him having conversation with a vendor that's walking through their software. So, he starts off with the two bubbles on the screen and then they get smaller and go to the corners. And then the screen share comes on.

All of this he's doing live now, which he used to have to do in post-production. So, he spent probably around, and he already had the camera, he's got a Sony a6400. So, if you have a camera, then obviously it will cost less. But I'm trying to think, ballpark you're probably looking at, at least five grand for all the fancy stuff I've got. And then I programmed the stream deck so that he has one button press for all of his transitions and stuff. He doesn't have to think about all the stuff, like what I messed up when I was doing it.

Mike Dias:

Which by the way, promo for B&H, that's nothing. Yes, that's real money.

Marcus dePaula:

Yes.

Mike Dias:

But in stages, as a career professional who does this for a living, this is how I make my money, let's just be very clear for everybody.

Marcus dePaula:

Yes.

Mike Dias:

That is the best investment I could ever make in myself. Hands down.

Marcus dePaula:

Yes.

Mike Dias:

And there is no way that I can sit and watch you or watch content at this level and then show up small dog to the next time. But this is the world we're in.

Marcus dePaula:

Yes.

Mike Dias:

And you talked about this earlier, and who you are competing against, we're all competing for eyeballs, attention, time.

Marcus dePaula:

Yes.

Mike Dias:

This is what an investment can look like.

Marcus dePaula:

Right. And also I've gotten more business for my own services, both for production and for consulting stuff, just for showing up on Zoom calls with looking better than anybody else on the little squares on the screen.

Mike Dias:

Of course you have.

Marcus dePaula:

It sticks in people's mind. And even people like Steph Curry, I did a recording session with him, he's like, dude, you look awesome. What kind of camera is that? I'm like, thank you, it's blah, blah, blah.

Mike Dias:

Yeah. Hold on. I'm going off the rails. But can anybody from B&H who is in the sides, can you guys pop on? We got to talk about this. Scott, you there?

Scott Jolson:

I am, yes.

Mike Dias:

Okay. You guys have seen me do this a few times and we've had some real pros on, but we have not seen a setup like this. How does this compare to what you normally see?

Scott Jolson:

Well, as you can tell Mike, by my wonderful camera setup... I guess now I have to retire and just basically hire Marcus. Marcus, I don't know if you're in the hunt for a new job, but I think Derek and I are probably going to start packing our bags tonight and start sending resumes out.

Mike Dias:

Joel, don't watch this yet. Let our guys catch up.

Scott Jolson:

Yeah. I did warn you guys that we did have the kill button. So, Danny is in the background, you think you could just hit the end webinar to help me secure my job and make sure that I come back tomorrow. But I think that's a great point to what you were saying a couple of minutes ago, Mike. And what you're talking about, Marcus, this is the future and there are so many people who expect, it used to be the barrier for entry was so great and it was such an expense. And now with a few key components, with the right components, it's a complete different game. You look at five grand, and I'm not here to downplay five grand.

Marcus dePaula:

Right.

Scott Jolson:

Don't get me wrong. I'm married, I have children, I already know the look I'll get if I say that it's only five grand.

Marcus dePaula:

Yeah.

Scott Jolson:

But when you think about what it normally would've cost in the past, or even just the fact that it wasn't accessible to most people. Now to be able to pick up those few key components and have somebody like yourself walk you through and help you get everything set up, it really completely changes the game.

Marcus dePaula:

Yes.

Mike Dias:

It changes the game. And you make that five grand back all day long.

Marcus dePaula:

Yes.

Mike Dias:

That's not even a question at that point in time. And again, I'm not down playing five grand. I'm in your same boat, Scott. But the price of not having it exceeds at this point in time. Because, Scott, if you were interviewing Marcus and me, I know who gets the job.

Scott Jolson:

It's been great everybody.

Mike Dias:

Yeah, like that.

Scott Jolson:

No, and I 100% agree with you. And I think that's what we're seeing. And I think you see that in a lot of these newer, Twitch is a perfect example of this. That's the person who has a setup like Marcus has is obviously going to wind up getting a heck of a lot more followers than Mike and I are because Mike and I look like we're in an incel environment.

Marcus dePaula:

Well, and I talked about balance before too. If you don't have the production element with what you're competing against, your content better be absolutely incredible to make up for that. And conversely, if your production quality is really high, yes, you can get away with the content not being quite as good, but if you strip away the production and the content is still not good, that's still a problem. So, it starts with the content and this stuff just is what sets you apart and elevates you above everybody else.

Scott Jolson:

100%. I think though, not to downplay it at all, because you look great and that's wonderful. I will say the one key up on me that Mike has and that you have is audio quality. And we were talking about this previously and it's something we talk about all the time when we're talking audio, video, what's key. And you can have the worst looking video that there is possible, which is not to say go out and shoot on a tin can, but if you have bad audio and that's not in the bucket, you're instantly going to lose your audience.

Marcus dePaula:

Yes.

Scott Jolson:

Right off the bat.

Marcus dePaula:

Absolutely.

Scott Jolson:

And so, the joke with me, and something that I don't know if Mike knows about this, but I've got two wonderfully failed podcasts that were only successful at the time when I was doing them because I had proper audio. Not to boast anybody, but I did go to the B&H professionals. I'm not an audio guy, but I did go to our B&H guys in the store and I told them, this is my budget. This is what my wife won't kill me for spending, what I can get away with. And I said, what am I looking at? And they set me up. They were like, this is going to do just fine. I said, well what about this one? It's 800 bucks and it's really shiny and I feel like I'm Elvis. Yeah, you look cool. You look like Elvis. You don't sound like him at any point or to begin with.

But sure it's 800 bucks, if you want to spend it, go for it. And I realized I didn't need to do that. But the audio quality was there. And that's really I think at the ground of everything that we're talking about for people, if there's one takeaway to take away from everything that we speak about, especially when Mike is on and brings on amazing guests like you, Marcus, you can have all the bells and whistles, you can have the best looking video, all the cool little ATEM Minis and switchers, mixers, all that stuff. But if you don't have good audio, you're in some serious trouble.

Marcus dePaula:

Yes. And especially the video people tend to put less focus on audio. And I don't know if that's just because they have less experience with it, but I see it a lot, especially with the camera obsessed people. Which I totally get, because I'm becoming camera obsessed now. It's kind of the flip side for me because I've been doing audio for so long and now I'm getting obsessed with lenses. And if my wife sees me buy another lens, she's probably going to divorce me. But yeah, you're right.

Mike Dias:

Can I buy your gear when that happens?

Marcus dePaula:

I'll need it, yeah.

Scott Jolson:

I was going to tell Marcus if he's looking for a place then I might be [inaudible 00:47:14].

Marcus dePaula:

Set up in your basement and then you can use it whenever you want.

Mike Dias:

Scott, I was going to tell you, you could start slapping me with a tortilla. That's all we got now man. That's it.

Scott Jolson:

I'm going to go start making some.

Mike Dias:

Yeah. So, Marcus, this is a great segue into everything you've seen for podcasts. And you and I were talking about this, I spoke at the very first podcast expo, we've been watching this together evolve. What do you see, let's talk about viability of medium, let's talk about future of the medium, and to really wrap this up with a bow?

Marcus dePaula:

It's interesting because video is becoming more of a focus. And I feel like there are a lot of people that are taking it the wrong direction with when it comes to video. Because what I see just in podcasting in general from a production standpoint especially, is there are a lot of people that will just record and then maybe trim the beginning and ending off and add some music and then publish that and that's it. Where I am the complete opposite end of the spectrum where I'm editing everything for flow, I'm spending a lot of time making it sound pristine. And I can't do that with video because if you edit video that much, it gets all choppy and they look like a weird Max Headroom type thing for those old enough to remember that. Vintage reference there, dating myself.

But I feel like there is this mindset with video production because adding video to the podcast audio stuff, which already is time-consuming and people are already struggling to maintain a schedule. Like Scott mentioned, your podcast you don't have anymore. I have a podcast as well that I had to stop doing because I got too busy and stuff. It's very, very common. Now, they're wanting us to add video on top of that. It's a whole other thing. But that's what I'm working on now and that's what I'm trying to offer with my services is figuring out ways to combine processes and streamline processes both through technology but also through technique and saving time in any way possible through software by killing two birds with one stone and doing things both with video and audio at the same time. And then extracting the audio and releasing that as podcast.

But back to what I was saying earlier about how people take it in the wrong direction, I do feel like when it comes to publishing on YouTube, people do not want to sit and watch an hour and a half of people just talking into microphones. For most podcasts, it depends on your audience, but for most podcasts, especially the informational ones, it's better to think again of the people that are watching and tuning into those videos and not just publishing the whole thing, but taking the highlights like what you're doing, Mike, with these videos and publishing those strategically. Not just on YouTube, but on social media as well. And getting the most power out of those powerful moments for the watchers to make them want to go back and listen to the entire episode as they're washing dishes or mowing the lawn or whatever.

Mike Dias:

Yeah. So, is it viable? Like time investment, how do you see that and what parallels do you see to the music business?

Marcus dePaula:

How much time do we have left here?

Mike Dias:

Well, save a couple of minutes to plug your services. I need a graphic splash in a second.

Marcus dePaula:

Right. So, there is a lot that podcasting can learn from music. And I do see a lot of people, especially of my vintage coming from broadcasting, like radio broadcast, into podcasting. And I think the approach from music is what will allow us to be able to find streamlined solutions and post-production solutions instead of thinking it like a live broadcast and to do the live broadcast that would be great, but you have to have a lot of skill as an on mic personality to be able to do that. Like we talked about earlier. The thing that I think podcasting can learn from music specifically, music got completely upended when streaming took over, when Napster came, when Spotify became popular. Artists don't make money off of their recorded music like they used to. And they definitely can't make a living just off recorded music unless you're somebody like Taylor Swift or the big dogs. So, it's about diversifying your income streams. And as podcasters, there tends to be a focus on how do I make money off of this show?

Whereas to me, the podcast itself is just one piece of the content that you're using to engage with your listeners and suck them into your world, drag them in sometimes into your world. So, video has to become a part of that. Merchandise has to become part of that. With music, live events, concerts, that's where they're making most of their money now. So, podcasting people, our talkers, we can do live events, we can do presentations, we can do ticketed things. So, the membership sites, all that sort of stuff, Patreon and the subscription model, all of these things play together and providing a variety of things at different price points for people to work their way in, instead of feeling they have to invest a ton of money, like our $5,000 on all this equipment. Giving them ways that is feasible to them. Okay, five bucks, yeah, that's worth my time, I can do that and this is worth it. But again, making it worth their time, especially if you expect them to pay for it and compensate you.

Mike Dias:

Yeah. And so, talking about making it worth it, sign me up. I'm your biggest fan and cheerleader right now. I didn't get to write down the website when it splashed up a second ago. I know that this is a passion of yours. You're able to bridge these worlds, you're able to combine these and I know that you have bite-sized digestible clips that I can study on my own now. Help me get there and help everybody know how they can also hire your services for more turnkey solutions.

Marcus dePaula:

Yes. So, my consulting work that I talked about, I have a services page at meonlylouder.com. That's just my business website. But my wife and I, she's a social media expert and she works primarily with authors but repurposing some of her tools for podcasters specifically. And this also applies to any content creator, any small business person. But we're developing this site called the Podcast Creator Labs. I began the Podcast Audio Lab right at the beginning of the pandemic, I was doing in-person workshops, but now I've decided to turn this, I completely overwhelmed a room full of people for 12 hours and gave them way too much stuff.

And I'm turning that, like you said, into bite-sized digestible pieces. And it's going to be not just about audio and production, there's going to be video, there's going to be content creation tools to streamline your process. And then marketing, which is where my wife comes in. So, we're in the process of building this and we'll have more and more videos available as we go. And it's to help the people hopefully listening here as well. And we'll have both free and paid stuff. So, there's something for everybody hopefully.

Mike Dias:

Huge. Marcus, with this, I just wanted to thank you for your expertise. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your stage presence. It shows your intent. I drive my daughter crazy, I throw an um meter on her. She's 13. She's like, I'm only 13. I was like, yes. And now's the perfect time.

Marcus dePaula:

One of my pet peeve words that I have to edit out a lot is, you know. People say you know way more than they should, but um is another one for sure.

Mike Dias:

I haven't paid attention to you know. I'm going to go back and catch the footage.

Scott Jolson:

If I can interrupt. We did get a question in here.

Marcus dePaula:

Yeah.

Scott Jolson:

That actually, that exact topic, and I think it's a great topic to bring up, is how did you stop yourself from saying um and you know?

Marcus dePaula:

Right. Like I mentioned earlier, I listen not just to recordings of myself, but I stop and I listen as I'm saying, it's okay to pause. It is okay to slow down. And that's one of actually the hardest jobs I have with editing is when I have clients that get overly excited and it's like their mouth gets ahead of their brain almost, and it's like, okay, just come on man. Just slow down. It's okay.

Scott Jolson:

We call those New Yorkers, Marcus.

Marcus dePaula:

But it is a skill and you have to be mindful. There's mindfulness that goes into it and you have to... And especially with everything else going on, especially us one man show guys, there is a lot to process and you have to practice, you have to rehearse just doing it and doing it and doing it even when you're not publishing it, even when you're not making money off of it, just doing it for the sake of doing it so you get better at your craft.

Mike Dias:

Huge, huge. Thank you for answering that. Thank you to B&H events team for hosting us, for enabling this, for bringing this space for everyone to learn. And a giant thank you to the B&H sales professionals that, as Scott was mentioning earlier, really do help solve solutions and do not upsell and really bring you to what you need so that we can all continue to do this and get better at this and tell more impactful stories. If you like what you heard, we run this show every two weeks. In the meantime, Earthworks has their own podcast called Amplitude. I think you'll like what you listen to there. And again, thank you everybody for tuning in and for supporting us and giving us this opportunity.

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