Mike Dias on Why Making Adult Friends Feels Hard || The Advisor with Stacey Chillemi Podcast Apearance

Stacey Chillemi (00:00:19):

A lot of adults are quietly struggling with something that they do not talk about enough, loneliness. They are busy, they're productive, they even look successful on the outside, but underneath all of that, they feel disconnected. They want more meaningful relationships, more friendship, more actual connection, but they don't know how to build it. And that's why today's conversation matters because today's guest, he is someone who felt the weight of isolation and made a conscious decision to over and over and over again to show up anyway. Mike Dias believes that the connection is not soft, accidental, or optional. It is one of the most important forces shaping our lives, our opportunities, and even the strength of the organizations we build. His work is built around trust, relationships, and ideas that connection is one advantage that cannot be copied. This conversation is about how to make more friends, build meaningful relationships as an adult, and stop waiting for connections to happen by accident.

(00:01:31):

Now, my guest today, Mike Dias, he is a speaker, a writer, and a business strategist who worked in centers on trust, collaboration, networking, and he's helping organizations turn relationships into measurable advantage. On his side, he describes his work as turning the backstage lessons into the boardroom wins. And his featured programs include Nobody Likes Networking, Performance Psychology for Executives, and Frameworks for Trust and Influence Under Pressure. He has spent more than two decades building products, partnerships, and industry relationships across pro audio, consumer electronics, and live performance. And he is now helps people, leaders, and teams understand that connection is not just personal, it's foundational. Mike, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you here.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:02:25):

Stacey, thank you so much for having me and to all your listeners tuning in. I appreciate your time, and I'm excited about what we're going to accomplish together today. And before we start, Stacy, can you please give me an intro every time I go on stage? I might go to another podcast because I've lost my train of thought. My head got so big it doesn't even fit on camera right now. So thank you.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:03:01):

So listen, I want to clear the air so we can start from a fresh platform. I am not a doctor. I'm not a therapist. I'm not a neuroscientist, but I am an executive who has worked in live sound reinforcement for the last 20 years. So live sound reinforcement is a fancy word for all of your favorite concerts that you love to watch, like all of the biggest names around the world. And I'm not a sound engineer, I'm not a performer, but I work on the manufacturing side that helps enable the invisible infrastructure that makes these tours possible. And so after 20 years of watching a system that is designed to be invisible with people who influence the outcome and create the shows that you love and experience, but yet you never know that they're there, I've been able to have this bird's eye view into an entire system based on reputation, based on trust, based on who you know, and how you build community, which has given me a really interesting vantage point to think about all of these things because the kicker is I'm horribly anxious and nervous by nature.

(00:04:22):

And so to have to go into these incredibly high stressful, high impact environments with people that as a kid were my heroes and idols,

(00:04:34):

I've developed some real tools and coping methods that have enabled me to find success. And I didn't just do it on my own. I did it by talking with everybody else who's in the system to try to understand how they were able to do it. And those are some of the lessons that I'd like to share with you and with your listeners. But before we start, I love that you were talking about loneliness and work right now, because we really are in the middle of a loneliness epidemic and we are still very separated with work and environments. Where do you think your listeners get to gather and meet people?

Stacey Chillemi (00:05:15):

You know what? Right now, I think my listeners, a lot of them, it's really hard nowadays. I think the majority of people have a few friends and their friends might introduce them to friends or they might go to bars. But you know what? At my age, the bar scene is kind of over for me. I sit there and I sit at the bar with my friends and we sit in the couches on the side and we're watching everyone that's not married hit on each other and we're laughing because you're ... But we're not making new friends. And then I noticed too that as time goes on and we journey through life, our friends are now having grandkids or they're going through different stages of their life. And so the group of friends we once had, that large group is getting smaller and smaller and smaller.

(00:06:14):

And I make most of my friendships, sadly, on the internet when I am doing these great podcasts, I meet people that I sometimes connect with and our energy is there and the synergy is there. And I actually create friendships through them. But human-wise, some of these people are on the other side of the states, but meeting people in my community has been a task. The last couple years, I've just seen our groups get smaller and everyone is doing their own thing now. And it's really, it's the internet that I've been making friendships, but I want to make close friendships. I don't want to have to rely on ... These are not like the friendships I'm looking for. I'm looking for that bond where I can be next to a friend and talk to them, maybe have a drink with them, go out to dinner with them.

(00:07:11):

And being home and being in my office or being in my studio is not a healthy thing to be all the time. We need to get out. We need to socialize with people. We need to talk to people. That's why I like when there's conventions and stuff like that, and you're starting to meet people. Sometimes you connect with people and you make friendships through there, but it's a hard task. It's not an easy task making friendships at our age.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:07:40):

No, I don't think it's easy at any age. And so I'm 50 and it's really hard to make friends, but I think I'm doing really good at it with

Stacey Chillemi (00:07:50):

Some of these

Mike Dias Speaks (00:07:50):

Strategies. And before we get into that, I do want to touch on this because I've come full circle with what you've been saying and trying to understand the difference between what's a real friendship versus an internet friendship or dispersal of space and time. And where I'm at now in my thinking and the evolution of my thinking is there's not a difference, right? It is the world we live in and we all crave connection and relationship in such a deep human way that we will make it in any way that we can.

Stacey Chillemi (00:08:26):

In

Mike Dias Speaks (00:08:26):

Fact, I would argue that not only are you making friends with many of the guests or people that you're connecting with through the work that you do, but many of your listeners have a friendship with you, inviting you into their space and have a friendship with you, even if you don't necessarily know them and have what you would consider a friendship.

Stacey Chillemi (00:08:50):

It

Mike Dias Speaks (00:08:50):

Does not diminish the level of relationship that they have with you and what they're getting from you.

Stacey Chillemi (00:08:58):

I'll

Mike Dias Speaks (00:08:59):

Take this a step further. What I realize when I really try to spend time thinking about what are podcasts, what is YouTube, what is Twitch stream and why any of this matters? And I have to think about this professionally because I sell microphones for a living to all of these users. And my first story is this, right? So as a butt rocker at heart, I couldn't understand why people wanted to watch YouTube videos of drummers covering touring drummers.

Stacey Chillemi (00:09:33):

I

Mike Dias Speaks (00:09:33):

Just want to watch a touring drummer. I want to go to a concert and have beers and my world and I couldn't get out of my own head and into somebody else's world and understand why would somebody want to have a relationship with a drum personality covering somebody else's music?

Stacey Chillemi (00:09:52):

Yeah.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:09:53):

That's where I started this journey from when I kind of fell into this this way. And it didn't take long to realize why. I think I have the answer. The personalities who are creating audiences on YouTube are incredibly giving in spirit and in nature of themselves. They are doing everything that a relationship fulfills and they are building real community with the people who watch them.

Stacey Chillemi (00:10:27):

The

Mike Dias Speaks (00:10:27):

People who watch them aren't watching them for their drum covers. They're watching them for them.

Stacey Chillemi (00:10:34):

I

Mike Dias Speaks (00:10:34):

Would argue equally, your listeners are relating to you, not just because the guests that you bring on, your guests are simply a theme, a river flowing through all of this. They're getting something from you, what you bring to the table, your background, your path of spirituality, your path of wellness that directly has meaning and need for your audience who, if we use the word in its larger context, are not just your audience, they are your friendship network. And taking that even further, if you were able to land in a room of your audience,

Stacey Chillemi (00:11:19):

Your

Mike Dias Speaks (00:11:19):

Audience is incredibly varied geographically, economically, and across the board, but if there was a symposium where all of your audience lined up and came to meet together, not only would they have a lot in common with each other, but they would have a lot in common with you and you would have a lot in common with them. And to me, what blows my mind on this topic is that we are now living in this world of self-selecting, self-identifying, self-building communities. That's the benefit of a podcast when everything becomes decentralized, you're able to really find your tribe. And I think that's fascinating. Do you notice that in what you're doing when you meet with your audience members and when you meet with many of your other guests?

Stacey Chillemi (00:12:14):

Yeah. I think when you create a podcast, it's usually because, for me, it was because I had a love for those particular topics. When I built the advisor, it was all about helping people in mental health, physical health, spiritual wellbeing. And then I created a business podcast because I've always had a love for marketing and business because of my creativity and health, my whole life was built around health and that stemmed from my childhood, overcoming really chronic health conditions. So it was like, these are two specific areas that I had a passion for. And in each podcast, there's a specific niche of people that we all have things in common. We may not be the exact same people, but there's the main objective we have all in common, and that drives us together. And then the personalities really, you really cling. Your energy sometimes clings to certain personalities or you're like, "Wow, this person's great.

(00:13:26):

I love their personality. I love their bubbliness. I love how they care." And that drives a closeness and a special relationship with that individual each time you talk to them.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:13:37):

It really does. And so I just want to be careful the way we talk about relationships and friendships and not rule out these relationships of people that you, A, may not know or B, may not get to see and spend time with all the time. They are just as real if you show up with that level of realness. It's the same as going to a party or a bar. If you show up but aren't really mentally there and aren't really, you're barely physically there, it's the same of how you enter the space. So if you're entering a digital relationship, being open, honest, vulnerable, real, authentic, open to receiving, open to giving, then you're showing up there to win.

Stacey Chillemi (00:14:28):

And

Mike Dias Speaks (00:14:29):

If you're tuning into a host who has none of those things, you're actually not going to listen to that host. You're going to find somebody else because we really do crave connection and meaning. And if you think about the rise of podcasting, YouTube, Twitch, it is much more a result of the times that we live in and the dispersal and dissemination of all of us away from localized communities and workspaces, I would say it's much more of a result of that rather than the other way around. And so I want to be careful of how we talk about that.

Stacey Chillemi (00:15:06):

And

Mike Dias Speaks (00:15:07):

Then I want to get into the meat of it about, well, what does it mean on how to overcome loneliness or how to build community or how to build connection because this is where we really all stumble.

Stacey Chillemi (00:15:19):

And

Mike Dias Speaks (00:15:19):

Forgive me if I don't have all the right words for this because I usually am not so airy fairy. I try to talk just about business, not about making friends because that's just not my beat, right? Yeah.

Stacey Chillemi (00:15:34):

Okay.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:15:34):

So I always approach this from a business perspective, but the root is the exact same. And I've been trying to be more honest and articulate about that. So forgive me if I butcher this and help steer me back on the way. But the reason that I talk about networking or the reason that networking is a thing that people look up and think that they need to do and hate doing and why it gives these horrible feelings. I don't want to go into a room with strangers and talk and chit-chat, and yet we know we have to do it and we want to do it and we think we have all these pieces around it. Networking is just a made up term. It's a made up adult phrase for saying, "I would like to go and make more friends." And the first step is actually being able to admit that, or at least if not to say it out loud, at least to say it to yourself, we can all use more friends.

(00:16:39):

Oh,

Stacey Chillemi (00:16:39):

A hundred percent.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:16:40):

Everyone of us, every single ... I've never met anybody who's like, "I'm good. I got enough friends." And it's tricky because like you said, we're not just balancing work, right? We're balancing work in our careers, we're balancing our family, we're balancing the time for ourselves. How do you slot making more friends into all of that? Or how do you even slot just being with the friends that you had growing up? It's hard. You talked about this in the beginning. As your family evolves with kids and grandkids, your peer group splits and gets thinner and thinner and thinner, and you're not always adding more back into that pool. Most of us, if we're being really honest, still have just a few friends from childhood that we've been able to hold onto and keep from growing up or from high school or from college.

(00:17:44):

And then people that we've met through work and then our spouses and our partners and then our kids, friends, parents, but it's really hard. It's one of the hardest things that there is because there's so much baggage that goes along with it. And we're always looking from the outside looking in like, "Oh, it's easy for them. It's not easy for ... It's hard for me. " I'm telling you as a professional who talks about this for a living around the world, this is hard for everybody. So I think we start there. I'm going to raise my hand and say, "I'm doing really well for myself. I am winning with family. I'm winning with my career. I'm winning with my relationships and I still am lonely. I still don't get enough time for me or my friendships that I want to grow and cultivate." How about you?

Stacey Chillemi (00:18:35):

Oh, I agree with you 100%. As you were saying that, I'm like, "That's me. I'm busy doing work. I'm busy doing this. I'm busy doing that. " And even when I'm around people, it's hard sometimes to build those friendships. I'm very good at making conversations with people. I'm an extrovert, but it's hard to make those friendships that I'm looking for. And yeah, I do feel sometimes lonely because even I have a few high school friends that I'm still friends with, but our lives have changed so much since high school. We are completely different people. In high school, we were so similar. And as we got older, we all took different paths in life. And so the things we have in common once before, we don't have in common anymore. So sometimes the conversations can dry up a little bit because we are completely different than we were when we were kids.

(00:19:37):

And so then you're trying to look for different friends that you have more in common, that you can develop that relationship that you want to develop. And it's hard because I think a lot of people too, they have had trauma in their lives and so many people have built walls around their heart. And when you have walls around your heart, sometimes it's hard to make friendships with people. I have let go of my walls. I'm very vulnerable. I'm open person, but I have friends that have been hurt in the past that keep this wall up and you can only get so close to them and that's it. You could just feel it energetically. It's like, okay, I'll let you into my world to this point, but after that, that's it. And I'm looking for that tight bonded friendship and a couple of them and people I could really ... I want to broaden my friendship area.

(00:20:34):

And it has been a difficult task. As we were just talking, as we got older, everyone's lives have changed. And that big table that used to be a size 18 at dinnertime is now just a couple of people we see once in a while and I don't want it to be like that.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:20:55):

All right. So let's get into strategy. Let's start here because I have some ways to build this up. So the first thing that I do, I mentioned that I'm nervous by nature and I'm anxious by nature and I'm Jewish by nature. And so meeting a lot of new people, if I let my nerves drive the energetic presence, then I'm going to really throw them off and it's going to go nowhere fast. And so the first trick that I do is I control my own anxiety by mentally thinking to myself, I've known this person since I was a kid. We're already good friends. And what that does for me is that allows me to bypass all of the filters of how I think I'm supposed to act when I meet somebody new, like that slow gate, "Oh, I'm going to slowly introduce myself or any of those things."

Stacey Chillemi (00:21:58):

No,

Mike Dias Speaks (00:21:58):

I go right in. I think actually the first thing I said to you and your husband when we met in New York was, "I'm going to pee my pants," which is probably not what you say to two strangers in a lie, but I was literally going to pee my pants if I didn't go upstairs in T minus five seconds. I had a wardrobe malfunction. I don't know if I mentioned this to you in line, but I just got him back from a vacation and I always wear the same uniform when I go on stage, except this time I couldn't fit into my jeans. I didn't think that I ate and drank that much on vacation, but-

Stacey Chillemi (00:22:39):

It happens.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:22:40):

My jeans was so tight that I had to pee every five minutes. It was horrible. I couldn't think of anything else to say to you, but it's that kind of attitude that just cuts right through everything and it

Stacey Chillemi (00:22:57):

Allows

Mike Dias Speaks (00:22:58):

Me to control my nerves and it changes the energy dynamic and it lets

Stacey Chillemi (00:23:01):

Everybody

Mike Dias Speaks (00:23:02):

Else put their guard down lower too. And especially for what I do, I would never survive if I didn't do that. I mean, I have to meet people a lot in my line of work, like most of your listeners.

Stacey Chillemi (00:23:17):

And so

Mike Dias Speaks (00:23:18):

Then the next thing that I do, so that's rule number one. If your listeners get nothing else from that, I'm giving everybody permission to be yourself,

Stacey Chillemi (00:23:29):

Which

Mike Dias Speaks (00:23:29):

Is really what that trick does. When you think that you've known somebody for so long that you don't have to put on errors, that they don't have to put on errors, that you just get to be authentically comfortable, and you actually start the relationship from being authentically comfortable.

Stacey Chillemi (00:23:45):

Right. No, I agree with you. There's many times ... I like to act silly, and my husband is a type A personality. He's a good conversationalist, but I'll be much more silly than he would. He's more appropriate in a sense, and I'll just say it. But then people laugh, and that's where the ice breaks is when you kind of look down your barrier and you're just you. You know what I mean?

Mike Dias Speaks (00:24:14):

That's how I see it. By the way, my wife is the same thing. She always says, "Whatever you do, don't blow it. Just don't say anything." Anyway, so step number two, and this is some really, really sage advice, everybody who ever talks about networking says, "Hey, ask somebody about their interests. I talked to them about their kids or their car, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I could care less about cars. I don't even know what car I drive." I have walked into a stranger's car that looks like mine more often than

Stacey Chillemi (00:24:51):

I- I've done that several times.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:24:52):

I do it black. I was close. What are you doing? I could just care less. And so why would I waste my time talking to somebody about their car or about their sports team that I'm not interested in? I

Stacey Chillemi (00:25:10):

Just

Mike Dias Speaks (00:25:11):

Don't do that. And so in order to be a good conversationalist at that point in time, and if I'm not going to talk about things I think the other person cares about, I better know what is important to me.

Stacey Chillemi (00:25:22):

So

Mike Dias Speaks (00:25:22):

I have done the work and I'm going to encourage every listener here to do the same thing. Just take a piece of paper and sketch out all of your interests, the things you genuinely love and care about and tweak out and go down the rabbit hole when you're scanning news online or when you're looking things up, your hobbies, your passions, like the trips you want to take, the foods you like to eat, whatever it happens to be, what makes you uniquely you. Or if I was going to tell you to do this exercise in a different way, make your classified ad as if you were trying to date somebody. What makes you? You like pina coladas and singing in the rain. Okay, cool. Figure that out and then only talk about the things on your list. And then it's up to you to code shift and to switch to find the overlap with who you're speaking with where your interests and their interests actually align

Stacey Chillemi (00:26:19):

Because

Mike Dias Speaks (00:26:19):

Then it's a real energetic bond, which is what friendship and networking is really about is building energetic bonds. And well, what happens if you shift, shift, shift, shift, shift and come up with nothing? Okay. Okay. It doesn't matter.

Stacey Chillemi (00:26:37):

You

Mike Dias Speaks (00:26:37):

Don't have to be the greatest friend with everybody. It's okay. Over eight billion people on the planet,

Stacey Chillemi (00:26:46):

You're

Mike Dias Speaks (00:26:47):

Not going to overlap and align with everybody. It's math and numbers,

Stacey Chillemi (00:26:51):

But

Mike Dias Speaks (00:26:51):

The way that filters work and the way that you're in the place and so on, your odds are you're really going to have a lot of overlap anyway. So your job is to find out where it is. If it was up to me, I would talk about whiskey cigars and horse racing all day long with

Stacey Chillemi (00:27:06):

Everybody,

Mike Dias Speaks (00:27:07):

But it turns out not everybody has those unique wants and likes. And so I co-shift and find the other things that I'm interested in and to overlap. And so one, I control my energy and I think that I've already known somebody. I give them the benefit of the doubt that we have energetic bonds. And then I actually find the energetic bonds. And then the last piece, and this one is the most important, right? If those two are foundational and structural so that you're managing your own comfort level,

Stacey Chillemi (00:27:38):

The

Mike Dias Speaks (00:27:39):

Next piece is putting it to practice. And there's five steps, okay? You have to say yes. Everything starts with saying yes. How are you ever going to meet more people when you don't say yes to opportunities that come your way?

Stacey Chillemi (00:27:57):

Right.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:27:58):

It is so easy to say no or to think of any excuse in the world to not do something.

Stacey Chillemi (00:28:05):

Right.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:28:06):

Right? You see this all the time. Whenever you're reaching out to guests, they all should say yes. Not for talking with your audience, but just for talking with you and spending 30 minutes, 40 minutes to get it to have a conversation. That's a yes, enough. That's a reason enough. Yes. So say yes to everything. You get invited to do a new project at work, say yes. You get invited to go out with a new group of people, say yes. If it feels uncomfortable, it feels like a stretch, that is a telltale time to say yes.

Stacey Chillemi (00:28:45):

Right.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:28:46):

Now, saying yes as hard as that sounds is actually the easy part of this because step number two is much harder. Step number two is showing up. And this is where it really breaks because you start going to whatever commitment you made for yourself and for the other, and you realize, "I'm about to do something really stupid.

Stacey Chillemi (00:29:14):

I'm

Mike Dias Speaks (00:29:14):

About to walk into a room where I don't know anybody. I don't know this person. I shouldn't be here. I have nothing to contribute." This is where all the negative self-talk happens.

Stacey Chillemi (00:29:23):

And

Mike Dias Speaks (00:29:25):

It doesn't matter how professional you are or how comfortable you are with yourself or how famous you are or how grounded you are, that self-talk is real and it will not go away for anyone ever. Because if you are putting yourself into new situations, you are no longer that same level of expert. You're not in the same rooms that you've always been in, and so you will feel uncomfortable and you will say, "I don't want to be here."

Stacey Chillemi (00:29:54):

Showing

Mike Dias Speaks (00:29:54):

Up is the hardest part, but it sets everything else in motion.

Stacey Chillemi (00:29:58):

Yes.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:30:00):

Which leads to step number three, okay? If you've done the hard work, you've said yes, you've showed up, then don't show up with your bummer self just looking at your phone or talking about bad news, bears and just waiting to bounce. Don't do that to yourself and don't do that to everybody around you who are at your women energetic mercy. You don't even have to like it. You can rapidly say to yourself, okay, I'm glad I said yes. I'm glad I showed up. This isn't for me. I'm not going to do this again.

Stacey Chillemi (00:30:37):

But

Mike Dias Speaks (00:30:38):

At least be present until it is time to leave, the appropriate time to leave.

Stacey Chillemi (00:30:43):

Right.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:30:44):

So suiting up is one of the hardest things to do. And only you can be the judge for that. If you're being honest and you've really done it fully and authentically and energetically.

Stacey Chillemi (00:30:56):

Right.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:30:58):

And if you do those three things together, what happens and then you go into play with making yourself comfortable and talking about and finding the overlap. What will in fact happen is you will find somebody to talk with about shared common interest. And as you both are in your pocket, the other people in the group have been cornered by the Dullard asking them about their car or whatever will be

Stacey Chillemi (00:31:22):

Looking

Mike Dias Speaks (00:31:22):

Over their shoulder like, "I'm going over over there." And you will end up bringing more of a group. And within that group, you will end up finding common overlaps and making commitments. And so when you're done, you follow up and you just close those energetic loops because here's where everything breaks. Okay?

Stacey Chillemi (00:31:41):

Right.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:31:41):

As humans, this is the hard part, and this is where we get in our head. You had mentioned this earlier. If you do not close your energetic loops, the commitments you made to yourself and to others, then you will be stuck in your head and you'll say, "Oh, I wanted to reach out to Stacy, but we met at the podcast awards and I said I was going to do all this and I didn't do anything. I can't reach out because she knows I didn't close the loop and she doesn't like me. " And you're nodding your head because this is so real.This is what it means to be human. We come up with every excuse in the world of how we drop the ball and how we can't move it forward because we didn't these loops. And in a way that is true. Nobody wants to hear from somebody who said they were going to do something and then they didn't.

(00:32:32):

And you're like, "Oh, that's weird, but okay." But that's also life. And there's no ... What's cool about this is when you understand and when you put it on the table and you dissect it, you realize one, it's a limitation that you're placing upon yourself.

Stacey Chillemi (00:32:47):

And

Mike Dias Speaks (00:32:47):

Two, there's no timeframe or time limit. As a human, you can reach out after, well after the fact and be like, "You know what? Life out of the way, I forgot. I'm sorry I didn't follow up."

Stacey Chillemi (00:33:00):

Right.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:33:00):

Boom, it's done. But this same thing goes for everything. You drop the ball on something and now you've put a mental block on why you're not reaching out and why you're losing and limiting a friendship node.

Stacey Chillemi (00:33:11):

There

Mike Dias Speaks (00:33:12):

Is nothing set in stone that says you cannot just reach out and say, "Hey, I was just thinking of you. I'm sure I left something undone last time and on my bad."

(00:33:21):

You can pick up past, present, future, all of those things all at once. It does not matter. And so your listeners, if you're feeling any of this, what I hope you can do right now is reach out to a few people when you're done listening to this. Reach out to somebody that you're very close with and just, "Hey, I was just thinking of you. You don't ever need an excuse." Then reach out to somebody who has fallen off your radar because either they did not do something that they said they were going to do or you did not do something that you said you were going to do. And think of it like ping pong. You're playing a kid. Do you want to just smash it and just win or do you want to keep things in rally? You just keep serving and keep the game and rally.

(00:34:05):

Right?

Stacey Chillemi (00:34:05):

Yeah.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:34:06):

Because what happens after that? When you've leveled the playing field and there's no draining energetic loops, then you're open to whatever comes next, which is just the following up phase. And if you've done all of those things authentically, there is no rush and there is no timeframe of when the next piece happens and it will or it won't, none of that matters. But when it does, there's no awkwardness and you just take it and just keep moving it forward. Because the thing with friendships, there are nothing more than touchpoints and energetic exchanges. Energetic bonds is what I like to say. And

Stacey Chillemi (00:34:44):

So

Mike Dias Speaks (00:34:44):

Earlier you were talking about this, I happen to think, like you were saying, oh, as we grow older and we have less in common, yes, that's true. And you still have the energetic bonds and the energetic touch points from all the shared experiences.

Stacey Chillemi (00:35:00):

True.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:35:00):

And I would argue that energetic bonds and touchpoints are as valuable if not more than how you actually feel about somebody.

Stacey Chillemi (00:35:08):

That's very true.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:35:11):

The person in your office who you don't really like, but who you are incredibly comfortable with and familiar with might be a better friend than some of your other friends,

Stacey Chillemi (00:35:23):

Just

Mike Dias Speaks (00:35:23):

From the shared level of energetic bonds. And if we start thinking about it like that, you're like, "Oh, this is really interesting." Because you don't have to have the same opinions as people. You don't have to have the same beliefs and likes

Stacey Chillemi (00:35:34):

And

Mike Dias Speaks (00:35:34):

Overlaps. You just need to have shared touchpoints and a different way of thinking about what a community means and what relationships mean and to realize, oh my God, the person that's at the checkout stand every time I go to get my chicken at the grocery store that I see all the time who I've never even really said hello to is actually a more of an emotional anchor and constant in my life than somebody I think I'm looking for. There's no shortage of opportunities for relationships around us. There's just the way that we process and think about relationships and what they can and should be.

Stacey Chillemi (00:36:15):

Oh, that's so true. One thing I really like about your message is that you're not coming out as a natural extrovert teaching everyone else how to network. You have said that you felt the weight of isolation yourself and that you being not alone is a choice. And that's a powerful statement. What does that actually mean? Is it connection? Is it behavioral and not just temperamental or is it showing up that matters more than the charm?

Mike Dias Speaks (00:36:48):

It's all of it. All of it. Thank you so much for bringing that up and thank you for giving us the chance to talk about this. It's a choice. To be social is a choice. To be alone is also a choice. And I know that's a controversial statement, but it's real. The act of saying yes, the act of showing up, those things really matter. And you are being generous with your time, which is all you really, truly have to give, by the way,

Stacey Chillemi (00:37:26):

When

Mike Dias Speaks (00:37:26):

You do that. And there's a lot of different ways to think like, "Oh, well, if I show up and if I'm generous of my time, what if they don't like me? " Which is the root of why we don't ... I'll just jump to the end, the punchline of this. That's the elephant in the room. That's why we don't do any of this because at 50, the fear of rejection is just as strong as when you're 13 or

Stacey Chillemi (00:37:54):

Anything

Mike Dias Speaks (00:37:54):

Else. I don't know if you ever get over that.

Stacey Chillemi (00:37:57):

I don't think so.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:37:58):

I don't think so. That's part of being human. I don't think I can sit here and say to you and your audience, "Hi, I'm Mike, and I'd like to have more meaningful relationships, and I'm not afraid of rejection." Both can't be true.

Stacey Chillemi (00:38:12):

Yeah, that's very true.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:38:15):

But I can know, and I can't understand that the act of recognizing and wanting and seeking one, I have to let the other exist and not be stuck or ruttered by it

Stacey Chillemi (00:38:33):

Because

Mike Dias Speaks (00:38:34):

The truth is I really like myself. I like the person that I am because I'm actually very honest and authentic because I took the time and did my exercises. I ate my own dog food of, I know what I like to talk about. And if I'm vibing with myself and we're not overlapping at all, okay. Not everybody has to be a relationship energetic level five. It's okay to have level one and level two. It's just math and probability. But if I showed up and I did what I said I was going to do and what I committed to and I was honest and true to myself, if somebody doesn't like me, then they don't like me for all the right reasons.

Stacey Chillemi (00:39:19):

Right.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:39:20):

Okay. You don't like me because I like to tell dirty jokes and drink whiskey. Okay, I get it. That's okay. That's me. You don't have to like me.

Stacey Chillemi (00:39:34):

Right. I love that. That's such an important reframe because a lot of people assume that if connection doesn't come naturally, something is wrong with them. So for the person listening who says, "I'm not outgoing, I'm not a room worker, I'm not good at this, " what do you want them to understand?

Mike Dias Speaks (00:39:55):

That they don't have to be, right? Yeah.

Stacey Chillemi (00:39:58):

They just

Mike Dias Speaks (00:39:59):

Have to be themselves and they have to find a room to work because

Stacey Chillemi (00:40:03):

Everybody

Mike Dias Speaks (00:40:03):

Does. You don't live in a box, but it is okay. What's not okay is to try to pretend to be somebody else and have somebody like who they think you are, because that's actually where you get yourself into your real trouble in your head. It's okay that people don't like you because that doesn't change anything. Here's the most powerful statement I'm going to make. And this goes back to everything I talked about with systems theory and touring and all the pieces that I gave into the 25 years of this. I'm sure that a lot of people don't like me, but I'm really, really, really good at what I do. And so they call me anyway. Let that sink in for a second, okay? This resonates with all of your listeners too. You are different and separate than just your personality. The

Stacey Chillemi (00:41:04):

Professional

Mike Dias Speaks (00:41:05):

You is no different than the personal you and the home you and all these facets of you. But if somebody doesn't like you, that doesn't mean that they don't respect you. It doesn't mean that they don't respect your work, your work ethic, what you stand for, who you are. And that doesn't mean that they don't want to have you in their network. They just might not like you. And that's

Stacey Chillemi (00:41:33):

Okay.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:41:35):

It really is.

Stacey Chillemi (00:41:37):

Yeah.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:41:38):

And I think that's really liberating.

Stacey Chillemi (00:41:42):

I agree.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:41:43):

I'll flip this around for a second because still all of this is really, in a way, selfish. All I've been talking about is about me or people liking me or me, whatever, making friends for me. But I've done this so long and I've talked to so many people in this space and I recognize that loneliness is the medium that we all operate from, that I actually view this as a much higher calling, that I show up at this point in my life, I say yes and I show up and I do all the things that we were saying because I know, well, I'm getting goosebumps just saying

Stacey Chillemi (00:42:23):

That

Mike Dias Speaks (00:42:24):

I know that I'm going to have a meaningful impact and I'm going to be a beacon to somebody out there who does not have the connection at this point in their life and that they need it and that me being anxious or uncomfortable or not wanting to do something social is equivalent to me being selfish by not giving the gift of my time that could actually impact somebody else going through a very hard, dark time

Stacey Chillemi (00:42:57):

To

Mike Dias Speaks (00:42:57):

Bridge to what they need to be.

Stacey Chillemi (00:43:00):

I agree. Now, I think one of the one reason people avoid building relationships is because they hate the idea of network and it feels transactional, forced and fake. And even you even have a program called Nobody Likes Networking, which tells me that you understand that there is resistance. So what do people get wrong about networking and friendship and trust?

Mike Dias Speaks (00:43:26):

Oh, that's a great question. Thank you for asking that. Networking is not about what you take, it's about what you give.That's it. That's at the very bottom line. And friendship, friendship matters because that old saying it's about who you know is 100% real. It's real to a varying degree. It's a hundred percent about who you know, but there's a caveat. It's actually, the saying should be life's about who you know and how well you know them Because knowing people on the surface, like when we talk about these level ones and level zeros versus level fives, most of the people in our phone collecting business cards, collecting contacts, collecting people through life, most of the people that we all know are level twos, it's barely there. And so the point is how to have deeper relationships and more relationships. It's okay to have level twos, it's okay to have level threes, but you want to do everything that you possibly can to put those in the right place to grow deeper.

(00:44:42):

And so I think to really answer your question, if we are honest with ourselves and honest with each other and understand that we all have the same basic needs and desires that are not being a hundred percent met or fulfilled through the worlds that we live in,

(00:45:03):

Then there's really nothing scary about showing up and trying to make friends because while it won't work every time, it will work more often than you believe because everybody else is out there for the same thing.

Stacey Chillemi (00:45:22):

Right. What does building trust actually look like before the trust exists?

Mike Dias Speaks (00:45:28):

Oh, what a great question. Well, I think that comes down to doing what you say you're going to do.

Stacey Chillemi (00:45:39):

And

Mike Dias Speaks (00:45:39):

I leave that open because I don't want to put a moral standpoint on that. I don't want to say, "Oh, being trusted, it's about being a good person, it's about this. " I think it's just as easy as doing what you say you're going to do.

Stacey Chillemi (00:45:54):

Right. This is bigger than just a feeling of lonely. When people are connected, there's a cost. So there is a personal cost, like a confidence cost and often a work cost too. The HAS says that social connection affects health and wellbeing and Gallup's workspace and reporting ties to loneliness to the day by day emotional lives of workers around the world. You talk about relationships as a competitive advantage. So why do relationships matter so much more than people think and not just in life, but in work and leadership too?

Mike Dias Speaks (00:46:37):

Oh, this is where it gets great. Hold on one second. I'm not that ... There, what's up, buddy? Sorry, the dog. So by the way, I do think that relationships can, and I think it's okay that relationships transcend just human relationships. When we were talking earlier about online relationships, where many of the relationships that your listeners have with you, your relationship with animals, wherever you are getting that sense of meaning, it matters for the person. So back to your question about work and people on your team, what you asked me is why are relationships a competitive advantage? Because none of us do anything by ourselves. We are all part of a team. Whether those are direct reports or your bosses or the contractors that you work with, to accomplish anything takes a vast amount of coordinated, independent effort. And if we do not know how to talk with each other, we certainly don't know how to work with each other.

(00:48:01):

And if we are only limited by the team that we have been given, then our odds of actually creating anything of lasting value or impact are limited by the immediate people within our network

(00:48:14):

Who usually, by the way, are not the right people to get what you want to get done. If you or any of your listeners were only trying to do something with the immediate people in their first level of sphere, we would never expand our territory. We'd never expand our maps and we would never move beyond that. I actually have a belief in infinite team that everybody is part of my team, my competitors, whenever I have a project that I wish to succeed at,

Stacey Chillemi (00:48:51):

I'm

Mike Dias Speaks (00:48:51):

Going to make sure that the people who are the ones who can influence the outcome and actually get it done are involved in the discussion and then the ability to make it happen. And that skill would not happen without networking and relationships and trust and long-term return on trust.

Stacey Chillemi (00:49:15):

I agree.That's such a strong point because most people think of relationships as nice to have, not foundational. So what starts to break first when relationships are neglected?

Mike Dias Speaks (00:49:29):

I think that a relationship, I think we need to define what neglected means because I

Stacey Chillemi (00:49:35):

Think a

Mike Dias Speaks (00:49:35):

Strong relationship does not need to be nurtured over time. A strong relationship can ebb and flow in waves of time

Stacey Chillemi (00:49:43):

As

Mike Dias Speaks (00:49:44):

Long as you have closed your energetic loops and your commitments. What breaks a relationship is lack of trust, which can be defined or can be accomplished by any way that normally breaks trust, lying, cheating, obfuscating, all of those pieces. That's not to say that those can't be rebuilt. And I want to be clear, those are different than the things that you have in your head like, "Oh, I didn't follow up and so the relationship's broken." I think it's hard to really break a relationship. I think you have to try harder to break a relationship than it is to build a relationship.

Stacey Chillemi (00:50:28):

Yes, I agree. Let's make this practical because I think this is where the listeners really need help. If someone's listening and then they feel isolated and they want to build more meaningful relationships, as an adult, where do they begin? Because I didn't even know how to answer that question because I don't know where to begin either because it's like I want those friendships. I just don't know where to begin. We talked about being an extrovert and starting conversations and we joked around about how we met and how the first thing that came out of your mouth is, "I got to pee and look where we are now. We became friends." So where do people begin? Because I think people have different viewpoints of how a friendship is actually supposed to begin and they don't realize that it could be more simpler than what their mind is telling them.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:51:25):

It is the most simple thing than what their mind is telling them. There are people around you all the time. Go out more, say yes more. And here's where this gets really interesting. I told you earlier, I told your listeners earlier, really build that list of the things that you love that

Stacey Chillemi (00:51:42):

You

Mike Dias Speaks (00:51:42):

Genuinely care about, then do some of those. Pursue more hobbies. There are so many activities. This is interesting, not just for friendship development, but for networking. Most people like, how do I network more? How do I meet more people? Especially in my work. They show up to networking mixes for their work.That's the worst advice ever. If you like acting, show up to community theater. If you like making music, show up a place where you can meet people through the things that you like to do and stretch and put your time and attention on the things where you want to grow and be a better person, and you will meet people in that space.

Stacey Chillemi (00:52:35):

Right. What are some of the simplest behaviors that make the biggest difference, do you think?

Mike Dias Speaks (00:52:42):

Smiling. I do. I mean, I just think that knowing yourself and what makes you comfortable is the most important piece that anybody can do. When I say yes, when I tell people to say yes, of course, I don't mean for anybody to put themselves into a position where they are not comfortable.

Stacey Chillemi (00:53:06):

I want

Mike Dias Speaks (00:53:06):

You to stretch out of your comfort zone, but everybody is going to know themselves and what is acceptable and interesting to them. And the more that you know yourself, the more that you build your territory and your map of your own mental health and wellbeing and social network. And the more that we demystify all of these other components around it, thinking that, oh, it's easy for you, you're an extrovert, or oh, it's easy for you, you're in marketing. The more we remove all of those pieces and we empower everybody to realize anybody can do this, it's just muscle memory and reps. Following a lot of the tips and advice that I gave and shared today, then anybody can just show up and begin to create wider and deeper relationships.

Stacey Chillemi (00:54:02):

I agree. How do people move from acquaintances to actual friendships?

Mike Dias Speaks (00:54:07):

Touchpoints. Sharing. So if we talk about the energetic bonds and bonding over things that you like and find similar interests, when you find something new, share it with the people who also find it interesting. The more that you share, the easier it is to build upon that familiarity. When you want to invite somebody out, do it.

Stacey Chillemi (00:54:37):

So

Mike Dias Speaks (00:54:37):

I mentioned earlier, I try to say yes to everything, and then I try to show up to everything. When you show up, I also mentioned it's really uncomfortable showing up to a room of strangers by yourself.

Stacey Chillemi (00:54:48):

Yeah.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:54:49):

So I bring people with me whenever I can. There's no rule that says I can't.

Stacey Chillemi (00:54:53):

Right. I

Mike Dias Speaks (00:54:55):

Also don't need to know them well to bring them with me.

Stacey Chillemi (00:54:58):

Right.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:54:59):

Inviting somebody out helps to turbocharge a relationship for you and for them.

Stacey Chillemi (00:55:06):

It's true. A lot of people listening are probably thinking, "That sounds great, but I feel rusty. I feel awkward. I have ideas." We're all rusty

Mike Dias Speaks (00:55:14):

And awkward.

Stacey Chillemi (00:55:18):

I'm not going to disagree with that, that's for sure.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:55:21):

Yeah. And okay, I need to go to the gym more. You just got to do it.

Stacey Chillemi (00:55:28):

Yeah.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:55:29):

You have to start. It goes back to that idea that it is a choice. If you want to have deeper and more meaningful relationships in your life, then you have to put in the work to do it.

Stacey Chillemi (00:55:40):

And

Mike Dias Speaks (00:55:40):

I happen to believe there are lots of reasons why it is the most valuable way that you can spend your time.

Stacey Chillemi (00:55:47):

I think people really have to realize that awkwardness is normal. It's not an abnormal thing. People might feel like it's an abnormal thing, but it's actually really normal to feel awkward.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:55:57):

It is. It is. And the way that you can deescalate that fear in your mind is know that the person that you are talking to also feels awkward and it's just as uncomfortable for them.

Stacey Chillemi (00:56:12):

So

Mike Dias Speaks (00:56:13):

It goes back to the very first thing I talked about, about how you make yourself feel more comfortable.

Stacey Chillemi (00:56:19):

Right. Do you think one of the biggest mistakes people make is that waiting for a certainty instead of just practicing connection right away?

Mike Dias Speaks (00:56:28):

Yes. We're always waiting for something. It's never going to come. It's never going to come the way we think it's going to.

Stacey Chillemi (00:56:34):

Right. That's true.

Mike Dias Speaks (00:56:37):

It's just reps and memory. So I do this one thing and I hate it. I talk about networking around the world. And I show up to this thing, it's called ... I don't even know what it's called. It's like speed dating industry networking event. And it's all online and I get thrown into ... Everybody's there and everybody's a super professional audio engineer and I'm not. I'm just tangentially adjacent to it. And then we get thrown into Zoom rooms for five minutes and have to make chit-chat. And it's horrible,

Stacey Chillemi (00:57:14):

But

Mike Dias Speaks (00:57:14):

I do it just to build up my reps. And so I'm well practiced at all of these things and it is still just as awful for me. Hopping up onto a stage in front of a room full of people I don't know is still just as awful for me.

Stacey Chillemi (00:57:28):

It

Mike Dias Speaks (00:57:28):

Never goes away. It never gets easier for anybody, but it is the choice that I make because it allows me to be incredibly effective at my job. It allows me to have a wonderfully rich and varied life with my wife and daughter and my family. It allows me to travel the world and it allows me to have an incredibly wide footprint to make the biggest impact that I can have. These are my choices. And I will tell you and your listeners that I have an incredibly wonderful, rich, varied life because of the choices that I have made. Right.

Stacey Chillemi (00:58:04):

I love that. And

Mike Dias Speaks (00:58:06):

I happen to think that that is available to anyone and everyone by when you put in the work.

Stacey Chillemi (00:58:13):

Yes. How do you help people push through the pass of the fear or the rejection or the invisibility?

Mike Dias Speaks (00:58:25):

By being honest and being a human and not sugarcutting it and saying, yes, that's real. That sucks.That's real. How you feel is real. And you have the choice to stay in that and to stay with the outcome of it or to put in the work. The way that we talk about physical fitness and mental fitness, I think that relational fitness should be in that same exact topic of conversation.

Stacey Chillemi (00:58:59):

Yeah, I agree. Now, I think what makes your message so powerful is that you're not just saying make more friends because it feels good. You're saying relationships change outcomes. They affect our health, our trust, our work, our resilience, and the way people move through the world. So what becomes possible in a person's life when they truly start prioritizing connection?

Mike Dias Speaks (00:59:29):

How big do you want to dream? I mean, I'm serious. That's the only way to answer that question. How big do you want to dream?

Stacey Chillemi (00:59:39):

Everything

Mike Dias Speaks (00:59:40):

Is possible. When you have a mindset, an infinite team, and when you have a huge network of people who are rooting for your success, both as cheerleaders and enablers, then what do you want to see happen?

Stacey Chillemi (00:59:57):

Right. I If someone was listening who feels lonely right now, what is one choice that they can make today that immediately shifts things in a better direction?

Mike Dias Speaks (01:00:10):

Reach out to me or to you. Because this is the thing. As you're doing this work and as you are progressing for it, I touched on this earlier, but you really do get to a point where you realize that your ability to show up is no longer for you, but for anybody who is out there, you never know who you are touching and who you are impacting and how.

Stacey Chillemi (01:00:37):

Yes.

Mike Dias Speaks (01:00:38):

And so if anybody is so stuck that you do not know what the next answer is and you do not know where to reach out and it's not that immediately clear, then reach out to Stacy or reach out to me.

Stacey Chillemi (01:00:51):

I like that. If you could leave people with one message about friendship, loneliness, and connection as an adult, what would that be?

Mike Dias Speaks (01:01:08):

Say that question one more time. Sorry.

Stacey Chillemi (01:01:09):

If you could leave people with one message about friendship, loneliness, and connection as an adult, what would you tell them? What would you want to leave them with? As they walk away from this episode today, what do you want them to realize from this episode?

Mike Dias Speaks (01:01:25):

That the feeling of being totally comfortable, of being relaxed, of feeling like yourself, of being seen and filled with joy is 100% possible beyond just yourself and your partner. But I actually believe you can get to a point where you can feel that with a brand new group of people in a very short period of time. It is not as hard as it sounds. If you don't have any of that right now, this might feel like trying to get a bridge to an island in the middle of a sea.

Stacey Chillemi (01:02:11):

Right.

Mike Dias Speaks (01:02:14):

And yet, once you start, it is worth taking the next step and the next step and the next step for what it leads to. I love that. Yeah. Because it's not really about you anyway. It's about what you get to give to those around you.

Stacey Chillemi (01:02:39):

Yeah. I think that's where people forget is they think, "What's in it for me? " And what's in it for me? It's what can I give to you to help you and to bring joy to you.

Mike Dias Speaks (01:02:55):

That's it. That's really it. Stacy, thank you so much for the time and thank you for having me on and for allowing me to talk and share my thoughts and feelings with your audience.

Stacey Chillemi (01:03:05):

Oh, you're so welcome.What I love about this conversation that it takes connection out of the category of luck and puts it back into the category of choice. It reminds us that the meaning of relationships just don't happen to us naturally, charismatically. They build by who we decide to show up, reach out, and keep choosing connection, even when it feels uncomfortable. And you bring that message in very clear. And I think you really opened up a lot of people's eyes today because I think people really, they lose the idea of how to really make friends after a certain point, or even at a younger age. I know many people, my son was always very shy and had a hard time reaching out to others. He had a small group of friends, but very hard time reaching out to others. And I think really, this is something that we all go through at all different times in our lives or throughout our lives, but we can make a change at any moment.

(01:04:06):

And they're simple changes, like you mentioned, and we just have to make those changes. And you could be silly, or you could be awkward, or you could be whatever makes you happy. Or you could say, "I got to pee like crazy," and just start a great conversation that way. But you really bring up the importance of connection and then how loneliness could really destroy you if you don't take control. And we can take control of reaching out and making friendships. And I think it's time for us to really think about, are we centered around the people we really want to be centered? Are we happy with where we're at in life? And the seven people around us or the seven people that we become. Are you around seven people that you want to be around? Do you feel lonely? And now is the time. And I think you really made it very clear and very detailed on how to really overcome that loneliness and overcome the fears of really breaking through and the importance of connection and networking and how it's never too late.

(01:05:22):

And you could have as many friends and network and they could be on a Zoom, they could be in person. It doesn't matter. Networking and communication is key when it comes to happiness.

Mike Dias Speaks (01:05:35):

Thank you. I'll add one last thing. If you are a listener and you have a deep relationship with Stacy, but it is just one-sided, meaning you invite her into your space and listen to the show and get a lot out of the show, then I invite you and I challenge you to write a male with meaning and impact and introduce yourself and just say why the show matters. So

Stacey Chillemi (01:06:04):

That you're

Mike Dias Speaks (01:06:05):

Giving Stacy the opportunity to make more friends.

Stacey Chillemi (01:06:10):

And I say the same to you. I say if you made an impact on someone's life that they should reach out to you and they should reach out and share the impact that you made in their lives and how much you mean to them. Now, can you tell everybody where they can find you?

Mike Dias Speaks (01:06:26):

Yep. My website is mike-dias.com, and I'm real easy to find from there.

Stacey Chillemi (01:06:35):

And besides your speaking, do you offer anything else?

Mike Dias Speaks (01:06:40):

I do. I do workshops for corporate. I do workshops for individuals. I have a three-part series that kind of builds you through these whole steps of everything that we've talked about today. And as a day job, I place product all around the world on the top stages. And so if anybody needs any help on that front, that's sort of my everyday impossible

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